SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Thank you for being with us on this last Saturday of 2024. And, of course, our companion through much of this tumultuous and momentous year in politics is here, too, NPR's senior editor and correspondent Ron Elving. Ron, thanks so much for being with us.
RON ELVING, BYLINE: Good to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: A development overnight. President Trump - elect - President-elect Trump has made a court filing with the Supreme Court over the TikTok ban, which would go into effect January 19 unless its Chinese parent company divests. What can you tell us?
ELVING: It's another plot twist in the long saga of TikTok, the platform many Americans use every day. It's got a Chinese owner called ByteDance. And back in his first term, Trump wanted it banned because it might be exposing the data and - who knows? - maybe the minds of its users to various Chinese actors. It was a national security issue for Trump and later for Congress as well. But Trump has turned around on that maybe hearing the protests or seeing what a boon banning TikTok would be to Meta. His lawyer now says Trump could broker a deal, maybe, to remove the Chinese owner or find what he calls a political solution. So they want the Supreme Court to hit pause, give Trump time to take office and take charge, and see what he can do.
SIMON: Ron, just a week ago, Congress narrowly avoided a government shutdown. There were some disagreements among Republicans on that vote. Trump has an ambitious agenda. How much support will he have from his own party?
ELVING: It ought to be all but unanimous among Republicans in the House and the Senate, but there may be times that's not quite enough, especially in the House. We already saw 38 House Republicans oppose the President-elect on one of those bills to keep the government open. And right now, it's not clear that Trump's backing will be enough to give House Speaker Mike Johnson all that he needs to be speaker again in the new Congress. Now, that's because he needs a majority of all the members, not just the Republicans. So given the historically slim margin in that chamber, even a handful - as few as four - could hold out and deny Johnson the gavel.
We saw that scenario play out in the House in 2023 when Speaker Kevin McCarthy was blocked and eventually ousted. And without a speaker, Scott, the House officially cannot do a thing. It can't even swear in its members, and it can't certify the results of the election to make Trump president again. So it's important to Trump to ensure that Mike Johnson or someone else gets those last few votes to claim the big gavel.
SIMON: And Ron, Democrats continue to deal with their losses. A lot of people in the party now note they have lost many working-class voters and a growing percentage of voters who happen to be Hispanic or Black and that Democrats may be out of touch on issues like immigration and the cost of living. How deep is the hole that Democrats find themselves heading in into 2025?
ELVING: With the working class, that hole is deep and getting deeper. It takes in not only many white, noncollege voters but, as you say, substantial numbers of noncollege people of color, men in particular, who don't hear their concerns being voiced by Democratic candidates. So the first order for Democrats is to stop digging that hole, get back to being the party of the factory floor and not just the party of the faculty lounge. That's become a cliche, but it's far easier to say it than it is to correct it. The patterns of dominance in the party have been moving toward the educated elite since at least the Vietnam War era, and there's a lot of ground to make up.
SIMON: This is going to sound naive, but with the margins in Congress so close, are there opportunities for bipartisanship ahead?
ELVING: Many opportunities. You know what? It's easy to just say it's hopeless. But in any sense, this is one of those darkest hours before dawn scenarios. There will be an occasion when Democrats choose to cooperate, if only to help one side or the other prevail in a dispute between Republicans. We saw a remarkable bipartisanship on taxes and, again, on immigration way back during Ronald Reagan's second term in the 1980s. And there was significant dealmaking on the federal budget in the late 1990s between GOP majorities in Congress and President Bill Clinton, even in the second term after the House had impeached him. So it can be done. The system is set up to enable it and rely on it. But it does require the political will to take chances and share the win.
SIMON: Ron Elving, thanks so much.
ELVING: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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