MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
President-elect Donald Trump's nominee to lead the Pentagon appeared on Capitol Hill today. Pete Hegseth's nomination has been plagued by controversy. Today, he insisted he is a veteran who's up for the job.
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PETE HEGSETH: It is time to give someone with dust on his boots the helm - a change agent.
KELLY: If confirmed, the former Fox News host would be the least experienced secretary in the history of the Defense Department. NPR congressional correspondent Deirdre Walsh and Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman are with me now to discuss it all.
And Deirdre Walsh, I'm going to start with you. You were in the room. What was the tone of the hearing, and what specific issues was Hegseth pressed on?
DEIRDRE WALSH, BYLINE: This was a really partisan confirmation hearing. That's really a departure from previous ones for nominees to lead the Pentagon. Democrats were pretty aggressive in their questioning of Hegseth. But Hegseth himself was combative at times, talking over Democratic senators during many of the exchanges.
The hearing room was packed. This was a larger room than the traditional armed services hearing room to accommodate the interest. And Hegseth had a lot of supporters there who occasionally applauded during his responses.
Democrats came into this hearing with serious concerns about Hegseth's qualifications. And down the line, they pressed him over and over again on his ability to lead this department that has 3 million-plus employees. They also pressed him on allegations of sexual misconduct, drinking on the job, fiscal mismanagement at veterans' organizations. Hegseth had only met with the top Democrat on the panel before the hearing, Jack Reed, and Reed raised concerns about Hegseth possibly injecting politics into the military and what that would mean for service members.
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JACK REED: And I would ask you to explain why service members and civilians who do not share your political opinions can trust that they will not be targeted during your tenure.
WALSH: One issue that came up repeatedly during the hearing from both Republicans and Democrats was Hegseth's previous comments opposing women serving in ground combat roles.
KELLY: Yeah. I want to stay on that point for a second and bring you in, Tom Bowman. Because this has been very contentious - Hegseth's past comments about women in combat roles.
TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Right. Yeah, right. And he said in November, on the Shawn Ryan podcast, that, quote, "women should not be in ground combat." Today, he said that women should be allowed in those jobs - such as infantry, armor or artillery - as long as they meet the same standards as men. He said, anecdotally, he's hearing standards have been lowered. Military officials deny that to me. And today, under intense questioning, he really flipped on the issue. Let's listen.
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HEGSETH: Women in our military, as I have said publicly, have and continue to make amazing contributions across all aspects of our battlefield.
BOWMAN: And also, you know, Democrats focused on his lack of experience. You know, he ran two small veterans' organizations, groups, but he'll be running the Pentagon, again, with 3 million employees.
KELLY: Yeah, this was - I opened this conversation by saying he would be the least experienced secretary in the history of that department. Did he address questions about his...
BOWMAN: Yeah.
KELLY: ...Lack of experience?
BOWMAN: Mary Louise, he really didn't. He kept calling himself a disruptor, a change agent, which is what President Trump wants. He clearly has less experience than any defense secretary since the job was created in 1947. Even going back to George Washington, his first secretary of war, he has less experience. In all cases, those people came from high positions in politics, industry or the military. And his time running two veterans' groups raised questions about financial mismanagement, as well.
Now, as far as the personal issues, he says questions about excessive drinking, sexual assault, or financial mismanagement - they're all part of a smear campaign, false allegations or just disgruntled employees.
KELLY: OK, so those are a lot of the questions that were asked and answered about his past record. Deirdre, what did he say looking forward? Like, what does he actually want to do if he's confirmed? Did he give specifics on what he would like to change?
WALSH: He didn't. And he really wouldn't engage when he was pressed by some of these policy questions, you know, continuing existing policies at the Pentagon or what he means about ones going forward? He didn't answer about the war in Ukraine. At times he would sort of punt and say, you know, he would support President Trump's proclamations on these issues. He talked about instituting a warrior ethos at the Pentagon, but he didn't elaborate on what that meant.
When he talked about women serving in combat roles - a position he changed - he did essentially sort of open the door because he talked about reviewing standards - he said there needed to be high standards - possibly leaving the door open to maybe revising them. One issue he did talk about in more detail was his belief that diversity, equity inclusion policies at the Pentagon should be essentially ripped out.
KELLY: One issue he was known for talking about back in his Fox News days, Tom, was championing cases of some service members charged with war crimes. Did we learn any more about that?
BOWMAN: You know, we really didn't. Hegseth has supported several service members who were charged with war crimes. He was asked about that, and he said war fighters have had their hands tied behind their back. Basically, there are too many military lawyers, too many international laws or rules like the Geneva Conventions. It was pointed out to Hegseth that allegations of war crimes came from his comrades and those accused and not from lawyers.
Hegseth - he also was asked about Donald Trump's suggestion in his first administration that the military should shoot protesters in the legs. The defense secretary, Mark Esper, at the time, and others talked Trump out of it. Would Hegseth follow such an order, he was asked? He wouldn't answer.
KELLY: That is NPR's Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman and congressional correspondent Deirdre Walsh. Thank you.
BOWMAN: You're welcome.
WALSH: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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