JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Every week, a famous guest draws a card from the Wild Card deck and answers a big question about their life. Jesse Eisenberg plays characters who spend a lot of time grappling with anxiety. That includes his role as David in his latest movie, "A Real Pain," which he also wrote and directed. The movie has been nominated for two Oscars. Eisenberg talked with Wild Card host Rachel Martin about what his anxiety looks like in real life.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
RACHEL MARTIN: What's something you thought was normal about your childhood that you now realize was unusual?
JESSE EISENBERG: Yeah, what did I think was normal? You know, I mean, I was, I mean - but I don't want to, like, sound like I'm asking for pity. I was, like, a miserable, miserable kid. I was like - I mean, I had great parents. I was a miserable kid for some reason. And I thought it was, like, normal that we're all terrified of all things. And now I take my kids to school, you know, which I did two hours ago, and they run right into the building smiling. And the first, like, time that happened, I was, like, what is going on? How do they not know what's inside for them?
And so I keep, like, as a parent, like, waiting for, like, the shoe to drop and reality to hit that actually life is miserable and going to school is miserable, and they just haven't felt that yet. And it's been, I would say, like, overall, like, an unbelievably revelatory experience, watching my kid go to school in a different way than I did.
MARTIN: Has watching your kid not suffer from, like, the same kind of anxiety that you did - has that lessened any current or existing anxiety that still travels with you into adulthood?
EISENBERG: No, I think I'm too old to, like, change. So I'm still, like, continuously mystified as to, like, you know, people who seem to, like, walk through the world, like, with their head held high. I don't understand it. In fact, I asked ChatGPT this morning, do you think if I had more circumstantially difficult life experiences - if I'd be more confident asking for a bagel? And ChatGPT said, well, actually, there is a trove of academic evidence to support what you're saying, which is, like, you know, growth through trauma, etc. So this is, like, kind of what I'm obsessed about. ChatGPT is a, you know, great place to go for these very, you know, human questions.
MARTIN: Oh, that hadn't occurred to me. That actually is useful. So it's not that you need...
EISENBERG: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...Validation from artificial intelligence about what you're feeling, but it gives you...
EISENBERG: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...Resources. It basically gives you...
EISENBERG: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...Footnotes.
EISENBERG: Yeah. So I got a bagel this morning, and I felt too nervous to ask something about the bagel. And then I had this thought, which was that, I wonder if I had something more objectively horrifying happen in my life, I'd be much more comfortable asking about the bagel. And so I said, is there any, like, literature to support this kind of thing? And it said, yes, there are theories about growth through trauma, which means, like, that, you know, if you experience something traumatic, you're working on growth in a way that maybe makes you less subconscious about these kind of smaller, little petty things.
MARTIN: Yeah.
EISENBERG: Little did the bagel know it was part of a discussion with a computer.
MARTIN: This poor, little unsuspecting, everything bagel - was it everything?
EISENBERG: Yeah.
MARTIN: What was it?
EISENBERG: It was pumpernickel everything. And my initial question was, is pumpernickel healthier than eating a plain bagel? And then I was thinking, oh, I could ask the people behind the counter. But no, it's a grab-and-go fast New York place. They don't want to answer this kind of question.
MARTIN: (Laughter).
EISENBERG: And so then I went to ChatGPT, and I said, do you think if I suffered an objective trauma, I would have asked if the pumpernickel was healthier? And it said, yeah, maybe.
(LAUGHTER)
EISENBERG: What a dumb life, a dumb, dumb life.
(SOUNDBITE OF RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS' SONG, "UNDER THE BRIDGE")
SUMMERS: Jesse Eisenberg's new movie is "A Real Pain." You can hear more of that conversation on the Wild Card podcast. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
