SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
A lot of takes on Ukrainian President Zelenskyy's sit-down with President Trump in the Oval Office last week. Here's one more.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "GUTFELD!")
GREG GUTFELD: So in the interest of world peace, let's address Zelenskyy directly. Dude, you got to drop the Napoleon complex. As a short guy, I'm an expert. I know what it's like to have a parade described to me by a tall 12-year-old.
SIMON: Greg Gutfeld dominates late-night comedy. His show, "Gutfeld!," on Fox, airs an hour earlier than his rivals but has a larger audience than those of Colbert, Kimmel, Fallon or "The Daily Show." He holds court before a live audience, along with a rotating crew of conservative comics and commentators and has become a key voice in the political and cultural debates and conversations on the Trump administration. Greg Gutfeld joins us now from New York. Thanks so much for being with us.
GUTFELD: Thanks for having me.
SIMON: I bet you've read and heard some of the labels applied to your comedy - insult conservatism, mean, provocative. Do you want to give us another label? What do you think of those?
GUTFELD: Fun. It's fun. Anytime somebody describes something as mean, it's because it doesn't align with their beliefs, and they're kind of upset about it, but also, they kind of wish that they had the freedom to say it as well. I take it as a badge of honor if somebody says that I'm being mean, and I'm just having fun. Even the clip that you played was more of a reference about me being a short person than it is about Zelenskyy. I would never, like, go after Zelenskyy's height without at least acknowledging that I'm a very tiny person.
SIMON: Is your comedy all on one side?
GUTFELD: I don't think so. I mean, I never really thought of myself as a political person. I was not a comedian. Still, I'm not a comedian. I just...
SIMON: Don't give me the chance to say I've noticed.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: It's too obvious. You're above that.
SIMON: Yeah.
GUTFELD: But generally, what I do is I just kind of sense mob thought, when everybody sounds the same. And then I tend to just kind of, like, think about, well, what else is there to say? And I've been trafficking in media for probably 35 years or so - predominantly a liberal bastion. You know, I went to Berkeley. I've worked in health journalism. I've written for a ton of different publications and magazines, so I've been around. I've always been the odd man out, so that probably molded the way I view things as kind of an outsider.
SIMON: Let me play a moment from a recent show...
GUTFELD: Sure.
SIMON: ...If we could.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "GUTFELD!")
GUTFELD: According to a new survey, nearly 10% of U.S. adults identify as LGBTQ. The other 90% identify as who gives a [expletive].
(Laughter).
SIMON: Brought down the house that was in front of you, but help us understand what you meant to get at there.
GUTFELD: What I meant to get at is that nobody cares. I actually have a very serious, I guess, philosophy about identity politics. I think it's a terrible thing to lead with. I am all for being an individual. And when you start talking about these characteristics that define you, it's actually not defining you at all. And you can see the misery on people's faces who kind of buy into identity politics. They realize that it really isn't addressing what makes up their self, and that's being an individual.
I might have more in common with a nonbinary African American than other nonbinary African Americans would have in common with that person. But they're not - no one's supposed to say that. No one's supposed to say, you know what? I would have more in common with Mr. X than the people who look like Mr. X. Oh, that's terrible. How dare you say that? So that's my point. And judging by the audience, everybody likes to hear the truth.
SIMON: I got to play another clip view of you, to you, again, though.
GUTFELD: Sure.
SIMON: 'Cause there's something I read and - I saw the other day in which you were trafficking in identity humor, if that's what it is, yourself. Let's play that clip.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "GUTFELD!")
GUTFELD: A large number of Asian voters in San Francisco have announced they are walking away from the Democratic Party. Well, thank God, they're not driving away, or we'd all be in danger.
(CHEERING)
GUTFELD: Applauding a racist? You're terrible (laughter).
Yes. There you go, huh? That's a terrible joke, Scott. A terrible joke...
SIMON: Honesty...
GUTFELD: ...Which is why it's couched...
SIMON: ...I think it is. Yeah.
GUTFELD: ...Yeah - why it was couched as something a racist would say. And I disown that, so what more can you say?
SIMON: Wait. Let me get this straight. You disown the joke that you just said?
GUTFELD: Yeah. Didn't you hear it? I said it was a racist...
SIMON: Yeah, of course I did.
GUTFELD: ...A racist would say that. Keep up, Scott (laughter).
SIMON: Well, I'm...
GUTFELD: See, this is what's great, is I'm explaining - I have to explain this show to you, which is actually more entertaining to me than anything. It's like, I don't find this funny at all. That's the point. You need to get outside your bubble, Scott. Have...
SIMON: Well...
GUTFELD: ...Some fun.
SIMON: But I mean, we began the conversation...
GUTFELD: (Laughter).
SIMON: ...By you saying, you know, that your humor was about fun.
GUTFELD: And it is.
SIMON: I mean, a racist joke?
GUTFELD: If you don't find it fun, that's OK. Scott, it's all right if you don't...
SIMON: What I...
GUTFELD: ...Like it.
SIMON: I have a peculiar...
GUTFELD: It's OK.
SIMON: ...Sense of humor, so don't judge anything by me.
GUTFELD: (Laughter).
SIMON: But I...
GUTFELD: What did you say? I'm sorry. I missed it. I missed what you said at the moment.
SIMON: I said I have a peculiar sense of humor, so don't judge the success...
GUTFELD: (Laughter).
SIMON: ...You're having by me, OK? But I just - I got to tell you I found that joke racist.
GUTFELD: Well, that's why I said a racist would say. So we're in agreement, Scott. It's funny. I'm trying to explain this to you (laughter).
SIMON: All right.
GUTFELD: Didn't you - maybe you didn't hear that part. Did you hear the part?
SIMON: Oh, I did hear...
GUTFELD: Did you hear that part where I said...
SIMON: ...I did hear that part but just saying that it's racist doesn't mean it's OK to tell.
GUTFELD: Oh, so it's not OK to tell something?
SIMON: Constitutionally, I would defend your right. But...
GUTFELD: Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
SIMON: But in terms of - God forbid - taste, decency - decency. Let's even forget taste - decency.
GUTFELD: Yeah. Some things - you know what? Some things you're not going to like. In fact, I'm certain there are many things in my show you're not going to like. Yeah. That's your right. And there are a lot of jokes that just aren't funny to some people. But to other people, they are funny. Those make me laugh. And they make me laugh because I'm pointing out how upsetting it is to people like you. Even when I point it out, it's still upsetting to you. I find that funny. It's a meta joke, if you will.
SIMON: People like me?
GUTFELD: (Laughter).
SIMON: There you go with that...
GUTFELD: Yes.
SIMON: ...Identity stuff again.
GUTFELD: Exactly. You NPR, kale-sniffing vegetarians. I'm joking. I actually like kale.
SIMON: Let me ask you one more question. You're always punching left and not punching up at powerful people.
GUTFELD: Ooh, that's an interesting point. You said, I'm always punching left, not up at powerful people.
SIMON: Well, powerful people...
GUTFELD: So you're insinuating...
SIMON: ...Powerful at the moment. Powerful people...
GUTFELD: Well, let's put it this way. The most powerful people are in the media. They've controlled the megaphone for years. They're 95% left wing. That is my target, and it will always be my target. I'm interested in the people that manipulate the narrative. That is all I'm going for. I actually don't even give crap about politicians because they are just interchangeable. I'm more interested in the people that try to brainwash us every day. And I think everybody - because of the rise of the internet and social media - has become an expert in media because finally something was written about them.
And for millions of people, it was Trump supporters. Trump supporters were being written about, and they're like, I'm not a racist. I'll go out of my way to help people. If your car's pulled over on the side of the road, I'm the guy that's going to change the tire. Why am I called a white supremacist? So you see that that is what I'm going for, which is that we've - in this day and age, and a lot of credit to Trump for calling out fake news. We have seen behind the curtain. We see how the sausage is made. And boy, there's some ugly stuff in that sausage, Scott - making me think about, you know, going vegetarian.
SIMON: Greg Gutfeld, on Fox late nights. Thanks so much for being with us.
GUTFELD: You got it, Scott. Thanks for talking to me. It was a pleasure.
(SOUNDBITE OF CHAPELIER FOU'S "ORACLE") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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