SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
The headlines say new limits on Elon Musk and that President Trump is reigning in DOGE. Here's how the president put it in the Oval Office this week, referring to his Cabinet secretaries.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: So we're going to be watching them, and Elon and the group are going to be watching them. And if they can cut, it's better. And if they don't cut, then Elon will do the cutting.
SIMON: NPR senior Washington editor and correspondent Ron Elving joins us. Ron, thanks for being with us.
RON ELVING, BYLINE: Good to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: Well, what are we seeing? Are they putting a leash on that DOGE?
ELVING: It's been sold that way - like it's Trump siding with his Cabinet over Musk. But if you listen to that clip we just heard, it still seems that Musk gets to come along, batting cleanup and deciding whether the Cabinet secretaries and other Senate confirmed officials have done enough. So who decides what's enough? Is it Musk, or is it Trump himself? And do we know whether that's really a difference? The New York Times reporters Maggie Haberman, Jonathan Swan have reported that there have been clashes between Musk and members of the cabinet, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, both of whom were reported to have been scolded by Musk for not cutting enough and for having too many DEI hires still working for their departments.
SIMON: Is the Department of Government Efficiency a potential political liability for Congressional Republicans? Because after all, federal jobs are getting cut in their states.
ELVING: Yes. That's right. It's not a clear liability yet - at least not for Republicans in Congress - because as we saw on Tuesday night at the State of the Union, Musk is still a hero to Trump fans - both in Congress and beyond. Musk still polls well among Trumper supporters. But the Musk stock may have seen its peak, Scott. We will see how the cuts to Veterans Affairs' staffing, for example, go down with the families of vets in the care of the VA. And we'll also see how much Musk gets to do with Social Security. That's the most popular federal program in history by all measures. But Musk has compared Social Security to an illegal private investment swindle. He did that on Joe Rogan's podcast last month.
TRUMP: Everybody's got a podcast now. California Governor Gavin Newsom started one this week. His first guest was not another progressive Democrat, but right-wing activist Charlie Kirk, and they agreed on a few things.
ELVING: Yes. Newsom took a more centrist position on bans on trans athletes in school sports. Now, Scott, I remember when would-be presidents would go on Larry King's CNN talk show to say they were thinking about the White House. Now, there may be a trend, as you suggest, towards starting your own pod. No one can be surprised that Newsom is thinking about what he may do for a living next. He's term limited as governor after 2026. So why not start a pod and start having guests who might attract an audience outside your own political base. And certainly, Charlie Kirk, at age 31, with millions of followers, hoping to be influential even after the Trump era - he certainly speaks to people far from Newsom's base.
SIMON: This coming Friday, March 14, is the deadline to avoid a government shutdown. How far apart are the parties?
ELVING: Far apart, and possibly getting farther even as we speak. Speaker Mike Johnson has said he wants a clean bill to extend current spending commitments through the end of the fiscal year in September. That sounds like the simple, typical kick-the-can solution here. But House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries points out that the bill Johnson is backing would actually be a setup for the new Trump/Musk budget regime, with all that implies and sets in motion. And Johnson himself says the new spending bill would get the ball rolling on the next era of Trump/Musk cuts.
So there will not be any Democratic votes for that, meaning the Republican leaders in the House will have to get a majority, and in the Senate, a supermajority, with the votes of their own members alone. And it's going to be tough bringing every last Republican on board for all this controversial stuff. That's not impossible, but the odds are not good. So right now, it seems likely that next week at this time, we'll be in a shutdown...
SIMON: Well...
ELVING: ...At least for a short period of time.
SIMON: It'll be good to talk to you then too. NPR's Ron Elving, thanks so much.
ELVING: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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