Updated April 18, 2025 at 05:00 AM ET
PORTLAND, Maine — Earlier this month, about 60 people, mostly veterans and family members, gathered for a beer and some civil conversation at Definitive Brewing Co. in Portland, Maine.
"I was joking that veterans are the referees that America needs right now. I think it's helpful to have veterans in the room because we don't start a conversation with 'who cares more about America?' It's just sort of assumed," said Allison Jaslow, who leads the group Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA).
IAVA started holding public meetings, usually at brewpubs, during the heat of the presidential campaign last year. They called the events "Pints and Patriotism." The idea was to make a space for a civil conversation across partisan lines. Given everything, the meetings went pretty well — but the need hasn't gone away, so the group is holding more.
The co-host for the Maine gathering was Jordan Wood, with a group called Democracy First.
"We support elected officials from both parties that are committed to publicly defend the most core, fundamental principles of our democracy that we do not believe are partisan," he says by way of introduction. "They are: the right to vote for eligible citizens; denouncing political violence against your opponents; stopping the spread of misinformation about our elections; and accepting the outcome of elections and supporting the peaceful transfer of power."
Fearing for their benefits
With a few more remarks as preamble, they start passing the mic around the bar. There's a good deal of worry about proposed budget cuts to veterans' health and benefits. VA care is broadly popular nationwide and that seems to be true here as well. The Trump administration has proposed cutting about 83,000 VA jobs.
"My concern is directly to the point of how we can fight against the teardown of the VA ... How we can protect the veterans? They're all brothers and sisters of mine," said Sven Lee, who served in the Army in the '80s.
Another participant says she's about to commission as an officer but is now uncertain about her future because of recent firings of several female military leaders. She asked not to be identified because she's currently serving.
"And as a woman in the military, I'm curious about your thoughts on the recent backsliding in women in leadership roles," she asked the event's organizers.
" For example, in boot camp we had to memorize every important person and Chief JoAnne Bass was obviously someone we had to memorize," she says, in reference to the Air Force chief master sergeant who was the first woman who reached the senior-most enlisted rank in any branch. "And recently her bio was taken down from several DOD websites. And my commissioning is in process, and I'd like to become a doctor for the military, but I do wonder what message it sends in your opinion when women's — women who have earned it far more than myself ... — when their bios are being taken down and their accomplishments are being hidden."
Several people in the audience raised the recent controversy about the secretary of defense sharing airstrike plans on the Signal app.
"I can tell you that had I done that when I was in the military, I would've gotten my ass handed to me," says Jaslow, echoing several comments from the crowd. She says IAVA is planning to ask veterans about it in their next membership poll. "I think that most vets would say there needs to be accountability here ... when you are risking national security and the lives of our men and women who are deployed in harm's way right now."
This crowd seems to skew toward people who are upset with the current administration, which stands to reason — people who support the way things are going might not feel the need to come out and air their complaints. One man does quietly leave after asking his question or two. Outside the bar, he explains why.
"I heard enough," he said with a laugh.
Cody Gillis says he didn't serve, but his son is in the Navy. He says he doesn't like President Trump much, but agrees with his politics, and points out that Trump won the election decisively and is doing much of what he promised to do during the campaign.
Gillis thinks the crowd was left-leaning and didn't want to hear his points about issues of antisemitism at colleges and vandalism of Teslas. And what was discussed, he thinks, was overblown, like the leak of the airstrike details on Signal.
"Signalgate. If you listen to something other than the legacy media, you'd know there was really, there was nothing. They say, 'Oh, it was war plans.' It wasn't," he says. (It has been widely reported that the information shared in the Signal conversation was, indeed, highly specific and detailed information about the Yemen strikes that might have endangered the American pilots flying that mission.)
Searching for truth, standing up for democracy
Gillis also says he thinks insider agitators — against all evidence — helped ramp up the Jan. 6 riots at the U.S. Capitol. Which brings us to a subject being discussed back in the bar: What is a fact, even, anymore?
"How we as vets can help get truth into the, get truth into the system, into the fabric of life again?" says Joel Lehman, who served from 1966 to 1969.
Just being a Vietnam-era veteran gets him a round of applause from the crowd, and then he goes on, his voice full of emotion.
"I see our country with two separate truths. I have Republican and Democrat friends that can't talk to each other, because they don't know what truth is," he says.
That strikes a chord with people — some say they think the media wants society divided because it's good for ratings. Others suggest ways of contacting Maine's members of Congress to keep vets' issues front of mind.
Another fellow takes the mic to say democracy is messy, but there's always a chance to hold people accountable at the next election. Jeff Edelstein is his name; he's not a veteran, but he swears like one.
"I don't know how many of you know the quote from Churchill? He said democracy is the worst form of government ever invented, except for everything else that has been tried. And, and so it, you know, it sucks ... Democracy is tough, but it is the best f***ing thing."
Edelstein says that's what gives him hope.
"I not only agree with you, I don't need Winston Churchill quotes," says Jaslow. "Rooms like this give me hope."
But her co-host of the event, Wood, ends the night on a cautionary note.
"I would just add, though, that we can't let democracy protect itself. It needs us to defend it. And democracy has fallen in many countries throughout history. It takes citizens to say: We want to preserve this. We wanna stand up for it," he says.
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